The following are excerpts from an interview with Bryan Wong, a job-seeking Masters of Architecture graduate. Watch the full interview on Instagram, here.

SL: I was keen to interview Bryan because he has really turned around his job-seeking fortunes. When I met Bryan, it wasn’t going so well. Since then, there have been some pretty straightforward tactics applied that we are going to talk through today which has really changed everything. So, Bryan, you are a Masters graduate in Sydney, is that right?

BW: Yes. I actually graduated from Adelaide and then I moved to Sydney not too long ago. I think it has now been about two and a half months.

SL: So, you were looking for that first job as a Masters graduate, is that right?

BW: Yes, and I did all my studying in one go so I was basically a Masters graduate with no local experience.

I did all my studying in one go so I was basically a Masters graduate with no local experience.

SL: That’s why I was really keen to interview you because it is not an uncommon situation and I know there’s a lot of people that follow this platform that end up in the same situation and it can be really intimidating when you feel like you have done all this study but you have no work experience. Did you find it intimidating?

BW: Of course...In University you don’t really think too much about it because you know you still have your assignments to do and stuff like that...you are sticking to your deadlines. You think ‘I’ll worry about (a job) later on’ and then once you get out of Uni… yeah it hits you.

SL: Tell me about how you started out with your job search and how that went.

BW: When I started looking for jobs, I did the classic (beginner’s approach) which is to spam everyone with emails. You go on Google, type in ‘architects’ and press enter. You look for everyone around you because it’s convenient. I got all their contacts and started spamming them. I guess that’s what everyone does when you start. What you soon discover is that you won’t get any responses because people are kind of busy.

SL: It’s a really common mistake to make. As an employer, I know that you are lucky if we ever respond to emails that are obviously a volume spray. So, then you found this platform and some of the resources - what did you find first?

As an employer, I know that you are lucky if we ever respond to emails that are obviously a volume spray.

BW: I would say that the first thing...I actually got to know this platform ‘My First Architecture Job’ through your book, (101 Things I Didn’t Learn in Architecture School). There’s a reason why that book is very important and that is that it deals specifically with the Australian situation. There are a lot of books that do touch the surface but they are not about the Australian situation so they are not really going to help you.

SL: What did you learn from the book? Were there any particular lessons that you learnt from the book?

BW: I think for me the takeaway was that there’s a lot that you don’t actually know as a graduate. Because some of us, we go to graduate and maybe we get some good grades and think “oh, I’m good!”. And then you read the book and it is like “wow, I don’t know any of that stuff. I guess I am not so good”. Then I realised that I’m like a blank slate, and so I took that as my approach. …

There was a link in the book and I came across this platform. I knew that I had to start networking and start meeting people because in Uni I didn’t do any of that. What happens is that people network a lot, meet other people and basically just talk. You just have to show your face and you have to know everyone so that you have connections. You aren’t necessarily connecting with them so that you can get a job. It’s not like that. You just have to meet people. You can’t just sit around isolated in the corner and hope that you are going to somehow get a job. It’s a way of life: putting yourself out there. You have to put yourself out there.

SL: I’m assuming what you found next was the free Jobseeker Workbook on our website?

BR: Yes! When I first got on to the platform my immediate concern was to get a job. That was a huge thing in my mind. I saw that the website had the free Jobseeker Workbook - this is what everyone wants when you first graduate. So, I went in there, I got the book, and went through the list and I followed it ‘to the T’. The workbook tells you how you should start to approach people, and what you should expect.

The workbook tells you how you should start to approach people, and what you should expect.

SL: What were a couple of the key things out of that, Bryan, that you then applied?

BR: I would say that the most important thing I got from the book was that you have to take things to a deeper level. You can’t just spam everyone and expect them to answer you. It is not like you joined architecture or went through all those years of suffering just to spam everyone. That’s not the point. You are supposed to have your passion for the job, for the discipline. It should show through your approach. And one of the ways you do this is in the way you approach people to meet them in the first place. Your passion should show through. Now that doesn’t show through if you start spamming everyone with a general template. It just doesn’t happen.

SL: Yeah...and it’s not even so much about passion. As an employer, when I am receiving contact from someone, we want to see that they have at least had the initiative to research us; that they have gone to the effort to know about us and what we do, so that you are taking on that work and showing that you are a person with initiative and good communication skills.

So… then you joined us in our membership platform which I’ll talk about for a second. ‘The Architect Project’ is a membership that we have for Australian students and graduates of architecture. It’s for people who want to achieve promotion, employment, or registration sooner with more confidence and more impact. It has a completely free two-week trial so that people can get in and see what’s it about.

Bryan, you joined us in there and found some more benefits that really helped you. What did you come across in the membership that helped?

BW: In the platform, we have a lot of different sections which you join and go through with guests and industry professionals who come in and talk to you about what you should be doing… they explain things. This is really important when you are a new guy and you don’t know anything. The other part of it, besides the knowledge which is really valuable, is that you also come across other people who are in the same shoes as you. Especially some people who have sort of ‘made it’. In fact, I would say that it’s the people that I met that eventually led me to my job along with the knowledge that I got. You have to be prepared whenever you go for a job because you don’t want to go in there completely blind. This platform helps you not be completely blind. You are going to know something.

SL: I guess at a base level there’s that industry familiarity that you gain. And we’ve got one section in there where you can upload your resume and portfolio. And other members will give you feedback. Did you find that useful?

BW: Yes. I had my C.V. and portfolio and they weren’t exactly well done. They weren’t refined enough and were missing quite a lot of key things that you don’t really realise because you have been doing it for so long and you don’t see it. I put up my portfolio and my C.V. on the platform. A lot of people I came across said, “you shouldn’t be doing this… I wouldn’t put that over there because that makes it hard to read… and your C.V. should be clear”. You pick up all these little things. You don’t have to follow one person completely but you slowly adapt it. You find a good balance of everything. I used that to refine my C.V. and my portfolio. I took the advice that people gave me and I actually applied it. That’s the important point.

SL: Bryan, I think there’s one key tip that you implemented from all of these resources that lead to you getting offered a job the first day of trying this new approach. What was that?

BW: I think the number one thing is listening to people. I was told one day by one of the architects I met that sending emails doesn’t work because ‘we have 600 or more applications’. There’s just too much of it. But if you deliver it in person...you take your physical portfolio and C.V. and you put it in front of them, you talk to them and show yourself. Then you are really putting yourself out there and demonstrating that you’re not afraid and you’re not hiding behind an email. She said then that her boss makes a point to keep every physical portfolio that comes in because it shows that you are going above and beyond. You are not afraid. You are ready.

But if you deliver it in person...you take your physical portfolio and C.V. and you put it in front of them, you talk to them and show yourself. Then you are really putting yourself out there and demonstrating that you’re not afraid and you’re not hiding behind an email.

SL: That’s such a critical tactic and it’s probably my number one piece of advice for any job-seeking students. I think I outline a few ways to do it in the free Jobseeker Workbook on our website. We also talk about it in our membership and I know we did an article with Daniel Moore from Open Creative Studio and he had a great line; he said, “apply for jobs with a sniper gun, not a semi-automatic rifle”. That was one metaphor that he used and it’s so true. And yes, go along in person. Because exactly as you said, if a student or a graduate makes an effort to come into our office then that’s a pretty daunting thing. If they bring in a physical portfolio then everyone who walks past it in the office says “ooh, what’s this? I’ll have a look.” Rather than “oh, it’s another thing attached to an email, I can’t even read it on the screen, I’ve got to print it, and now the printer’s not working …” Instead, you’ve got this beautiful physical thing in your hands. The other great thing about it is if it is one that you want to go in and get back after they are done with it, you might also get some feedback. Whenever I have had one dropped off to me in the office then I have said to the person, “do you want to come back and get it so that you can use it again?”. Even if they weren’t right for the job, I make the effort to give them some feedback because they have made the effort to come and talk to us. You get such an immediate sense of that person you know that they’ve got initiative, that they are out-going, that they can communicate well. All these things that you can’t get from an email.

How did you find the first day that you tried this tactic of going into offices?

BW: So, the very next day after I heard that I thought, “Oh, I better go in person. I have got nothing to lose, right? What’s the worst thing they could do?” Maybe they’ll just tell me that they’re not hiring anyone right now which is already what I’m hearing. So, I put my portfolio in my backpack and set off to a few firms.

SL: And you researched who you were going to ask for when you arrived?

BW: Yes, and people will actually lead you in! That’s kind of how it works in most of the firms. Some of the firms look busy so you call them and “I’m are right outside your firm”. And often they will be on the phone and come out and say “oh, I see you over there. Come in. Come in for a talk.”

SL: That’s a good tactic. And even if that person can’t come out have a chat with the receptionist because I would ask our receptionist what did they seem like. Just because you don’t get that top person doesn’t mean it’s not worth it.

BW: I would say that from my own experiences that every time you go in that you’re not behind an email. The boss will immediately see you, they’ll see your face, and they’ll speak to you directly and you’re not just another random application. You’re somebody now. Even if nothing happens or nothing materializes (which you should sort of expect because people are busy). I thought of it as laying the groundwork so that in the future I may be able to follow up. Who knows? I knew another friend who followed up once a month for six months and then eventually got the job offer. It’s that persistence.

…they’ll see your face, and they’ll speak to you directly and you’re not just another random application. You’re somebody now.

SL: Did you say it was your third firm that you tried this approach that you got an interview offer?

BW: Yes, it was the third firm and I was very fortunate.

SL: Third firm on the first day of this new approach, right?

BW: Yes! It was on the very first day that I went in with my physical portfolio. I was standing out there and wasn’t sure where the entrance was or how I was going to get in because - most studios you need a key form to enter. It didn’t seem like anyone would notice me from the entrance so I was standing around there wondering how I would go about this. And then someone did notice me there. I explained my situation to that person - that I’m looking for a job and I’m a fresh graduate. So, he was kind enough to lead me to the studio manager who happened to be on a break at that point. I spoke to her and that’s how it happened.

SL: So, Bryan how many firms do you think you have contacted with the first tactic unsuccessfully? What would you estimate?

BW: I think probably coming to about 200.

SL: And the third firm with this tactic. That’s amazing.

BW: Yes, the third firm in person with a physical portfolio… presenting yourself, being well-dressed, being employable. You should come across like that. And you should have that energy, you know. That charisma that you have nothing to lose.

SL: I just think that’s incredible and such a lesson in there that it’s not necessarily about what’s in that portfolio. It’s about how you are going about it. I think that’s such an important message for students and graduates. Thanks so much for sharing that.

How’s the job been since you started. How long have you been there now?

BW: I think now it has been about two full weeks. I’m coming to my third week. It’s been great because it has been a gentle learning curve. It has been great. I couldn’t ask for more. This is the ideal scenario for me. I couldn’t believe that I finally got it. When I got the reply, I was like, “Whoa! Whoa!”

SL: That’s awesome! You seem really happy about it. For anyone else who watches this, that’s looking for that free Jobseeker Workbook, head to our bio. It details a bit of information on how you can go about this approach. I can see someone in the comments said they have recently hired someone because they came in with a physical portfolio.

Someone else has asked in the comments what you do in COVID when you can’t go in. And there are probably people watching from other countries that might be under further restrictions than us at the moment or perhaps in Victoria at the moment. I have been suggesting to people why not do a little video to send. Anything that’s a bit different. If I received even a customized video from someone, I would probably watch that. It would give me more information than just a cover letter. And it would show a bit more initiative.

Thanks so much for sharing that story with us, Bryan. Is there anything else you wanted to add?

BW: No, I think I got most of the message across. I think I personally believe that if you really want that opportunity, and you really have that attitude then the way you approach (job-seeking) should also show that attitude. And when you meet people, you have the energy then they sort of say that “Oh! This guy has got the right attitude. He is a blank slate and we can make him what we need him to be”.

SL: 100%. Thanks so much for sharing your story, Bryan. And thanks to everyone that watched. Great to share this stuff with other job-seekers. Hope it helps some people. Thanks, Bryan. Bye.

BW: Bye! Thank you.

Resources mentioned in this article:

Workbook: Free Jobseeker Workbook:

Book: 101 Things I Didn’t Learn in Architecture School; And wish I’d known before my first job.

Membership: The Architect Project

Article series: Breaking Into Architecture

Other suggested resources:

Archmarathon video on job interviews.

Parlour: Women Equity Architecture, Guidelines on equitable practice and careers.

Search Parlour for ‘job seeking’ or ‘interview’ topics. For example, this video on ‘finding opportunity’.